Hanging from a strap
Melbourne’s strap hanging has been in the news today. The contention is that 45 minutes is too long to hang from a strap.
I agree, but I wanted to look deeper at the issue of standing versus sitting on mass transit and commuter trains.
The first thing I would mention is that mass transit railways tend to put the longitudinal seats in not just to increase space, but it actually increases the comfort and flow for the standees. But you need to have many more places to grip.
One of the reasons people cluster around the doorway is the abundance of things to grab onto or lean on, and the fear of not being able to get off at a station if the train is full. Both issues need to be addressed with wide, open layouts and plenty of things to grab onto. Too many seats also mean too many objects to contort around.
I understand one of the complications is ferals and vandals destroying the train using the grips. The issue then is the ferals and vandals, not the grips.
The next point I would make is the condition of track and pointwork. It doesn’t just impact on running time, it also provides discomfort to passengers, especially standees. I couldn’t believe in Germany and Japan how trains I rode felt like they were on billiard tables. Provides a lot of confidence to stand and walk around whilst the train is in motion. Referring to my earlier point, again people will be more inclined to move away from the doors if they know they can stand anywhere on the train.
Another issue is personal space and intimacy. A subject people probably don’t want to talk about. Japan is famous for its chikan but is also famous for its pushers. At the end of the day they accept you are going to push them in until everyone is touching everyone else. Male and female, friends and strangers. Our culture is struggling to keep up with reality.
But then, if you can imagine feudal Japan in the 1860s with its stilted social norms, then imagine a Japanese train in the 1880s with people pushing them in, to maximise ridership, the reality is any culture can adjust over time. A feast for the chikans, unfortunately, but also a reality. If you want to see an interesting take on this, there is a film called “I just didn’t do it” about a young man charged with chikanning a schoolgirl, who, as the name suggests, just didn’t do it. Goes into some detail on the practice.
Finally, a word about rail versus road competition. Of course driving yourself is more comfortable than being crammed into a train, and 45 minutes is too long. However, this is where I would suggest mass transit and commuting really do part company. It’s not just a matter of journey length, but also journey purpose. No doubt 45 minutes in a Hong Kong train to the far edge of the New Territories, standing the whole way, is uncomfortable. I’ve also caught the loco-hauled train to Dongguan on the other side, beautiful long distance seats, buffet service, seat allocation and so on.
The reality is mass transit isn’t just about distance or haul, but about what is a reasonable service to provide for the price. If Pakenham or Penrith or Robina or Rockingham passengers wanted comfort, they would be paying what the people going to Dongguan were paying, maybe AUD50 each way. That’s where the journey purpose (business) feeds through into price.
It is to my eternal regret that we don’t have a way of ensuring people from Pakenham or Penrith, at least, are guaranteed a better quality journey, at a higher price, on the same routes as cheaper, less comfortable trains.
The 45 minute figure was only for express services – apparently the government thinks we don’t mind standing as long as we keep moving. Curious distinction to make but there it is. Incidentally the journo then ignored that and said people would be standing to (among others) Glen Waverley, which is 44 minutes from Flinders Street via the Loop stopping all stations. Ah well!
Anyway, leaving aside the question of elderly, mobility impaired and pregnant passengers (who are all entitled to a seat when they ask for one), is 45 minutes a good figure? Personally I work standing up so I’m good for an hour or two with no problems but the majority of today’s passengers (and indeed today’s society) drive a desk for eight hours a day, and I’d put 30 minutes as the maximum – irrespective of whether it runs express or stopping.
With today’s services that gets us as far as Springvale, give or take. Not even Dandenong, let alone any of Casey or Cardinia. There’s only one solution – multiple CADs. There will be a few people who still need to work in the city – eg there’s no openings for admin people in the ANZ bank in Dandenong, they’re all at head office in Docklands. Hopefully, there should be few enough of those sort of jobs that they won’t have to strap-hang.
CADs was a major ongoing project in the Victorian Transport Plan. What exactly has been done to date? Has it had any significant effect? What else is slated and is it enough? Because our transport system won’t cope otherwise.
Thanks Meej. I think this issue is one of the chickens that has come home to roost. Not just overcrowding, per se, but the increasing unsuitability of the rollingstock for the tasks at hand.
There should never have been the view that what works in Hawksburn works in Officer, or vv. I used to get on at Hawksburn and you really do only need a handhold, nothing more. It should take a train no more than 10 minutes from Hawksburn to Parliament, and you would really struggle to do it in less than 30 minutes by car. So the train has the time advantage already; but no other advantages so it should sell itself on that.
This ‘versatility’ argument for rollingstock is very non-customer-focussed and sounds more like management are avoiding arguments with the staff and unions rather than trying to make rollingstock segmentation work.
Agree with the CAD issue, and take issue with those who say “jobs” need to be created outside the CBD. Not just jobs, but careers need to be created. Not necessarily the whole of your career, but you need to offer jobs in Dandenong that you could want to get, because you’ll get a good promotion from that job into another one, also in Dandenong. That way, you’ll buy a house in that area and put down roots. You could make CEO of that firm, and still be in Dandenong.
Anything less than that, people start making ‘contingencies’. Better not buy the house in Dandenong, in case have to change jobs. Better buy it instead in Glen Waverley (whoops, another person who has to drive to work). And then they do get the job in the CBD (whoops, another person overcrowding the GWY line rather than using the shortrunner train from say Lyndhurst to Dandenong). Better send the kids to school at Camberwell High rather than a new, posh school in Dandenong. People will be unable to put down roots in a new, genuine second city at Dandenong unless they are able to find worthwhile careers there.
Then it won’t matter so much if people commute from Pakenham; nor will the Noble Park-Westall urban decay area stay that way for too long, as it will become ‘prime’ real estate for those who work in Dandenong.
Edit ^^
Just thinking, a train doesn’t just have a time advantage, but also a cost advantage, going from Hawksburn to Parliament. Depends how you stack it – a free parking spot in the city (courtesy of employer) and you might use a teaspoon full of fuel if that’s the only cost you attribute to the journey (ie you would have bought, insured and registered the car anyway).
But on every other dimension: comfort, privacy, convenience, choice of route, etc, car wins – so the train should play to its strengths, and arguing over whether Hawksburn people should get a seat is beside the point. Over that distance, being able to get on and grab a handhold should be enough.
And it goes without saying, double decks are worse for the standing passenger. Sydney’s vestibule areas are pretty good with plenty of standing room and things to grab, but the saloon areas are not pleasant, and you’re not supposed to stand on the stairs.
A true double decker, though, with full length double decks and direct access to both decks from the platform, fitted out with longitudianl seats and multiple doors, would be a true high capacity vehicle. If 8 cars could manage 2000 pax comfortably, then it would challenge most station designs! You would probably need every station to be like Sydney Olympic Park
The overcrowding particuarly in the morning peak is caused by the very high peaking effect Australia wide between 7.45am and 8.45am, where the absolute majority of office workers are travelling into work, whereas in the afternoon peak there is traditionally three peaks (3.00-3.45pm, 4.45pm-5.30pm and 6.30-7.00pm) and is much more spread out.
I would almost challenge the Victorian DoT, and Metro to try a full peak timetable between the hours of 6am and 8pm Monday – Friday (just delete the occasional train where required for the very occasional BG freight over at least 12 months, and see whether there is a significant shift in the peaking in the morning peak. Given that Melbourne has almost no constraints to running an all day peak intensive service.
To get this vaugely back on track – Morning peak you can’t do much if at all to get a seat if the trains full from far out.
This means that each seat is probably seeing around 1.1 to 1.5 people per trip to the CBD, per seat. However in the afternoon peak its more different, and as people exit the train standees get to have a seat. The seat loading is probably around 3-4 people per trip per seat, which is probably another reaosn why there is less complaining about the afternoon trip. If they can spread the morning peak like the afternoon peak, then there would be less overcrowding overall in the highest peaking period.
Good point James. That has always been the issue. If you get on at a CBD station in the afternoon peak, you might not get a seat, however, someone is likely to get up at some point so you stand a chance.
Did I ever do my post on the transport of school students and considerations that should be given, like shifting school hours?
Not that i recall.
Also my school actually did this in year 11 and 12. (as it was split into four campuses, 3 campuses 7-10, and 1 campus 11/12), and was an experimental public school, to trial this setup, as it was meant to be more like University – and in a way i think it was – i was actually dissapointed that my school was more like the university experience that everyone talks about.
This was from the era when the NSW Department of Education and Training was looking at high school being open roughly 8am-8pm, but this didnt go ahead.
My school had 7 periods (period 0-6) and Period 0 started at 7:00am, and Period 6 started at 3:30pm. It also did certain classes at late night (as it was shared with a TAFE. If you didnt have a class you didnt have to be at school. It was possible that you would only turn up to school 4 days a week, though you could have one day which was 10+ hours long.
Just sharing my personal example with the peaking problem. I live approx 15k’s from my work, and i have flexi hours – and choose to start work at 7am. However if i was to do this trip by public transportation at this time, it would take me 90 minutes, compared to 25min by car (or 65min in peak), which in part shows the problem with flexi hours and public transport.
Thanks James. Although all Flexihours does is reveal the problems with public transport outside peak times.
I like your idea for trying to run a peak (or not quite peak, I suspect) timetable all day. I’m convinced that a lot of the early shouldering on the Melbourne system is making the gradient worse – and people should be able to contemplate working in an office from 10am to 8pm without feeling they should not do so because the PT is awful.
We are no longer the regimented society of Bundy Clock and swill. Not just on peak vs off peak weekdays, but also weekend tables that reflect modern retail and entertainment practices.
For those too young to know about the swill and the regimented society, have a read of the wikipedia entry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_o‘clock_swill
I think there’s a hidden message in there that you’ve touched on with your parallels with Japan of the 1880’s.
The way I read it was that passengers have placed punctuality over personal space, as if they have accepted deep down capacity constraints are not going to change. Despite the manufactured outrage from the Herald-Sun and the PTUA, it’s representative of a shift in passenger mindset. It would be interesting to see what The-Commuter-In-The-Street would choose between room and seating now…
In my city (Bangkok Thailand) there are major issues with overcrowding at peak times as there are in many cities around the world. What they have done here to help ease the overcrowding was to stagger start and finish times of different sectors of employment.
Schools start 7.30am and finish either 2pm or 3pm.
Factories start between 6am and 7am and finish between 4 and 5pm.
Govt offices start 8.30am to 4.30pm
Local high street banks 8.30am to 3.30pm
Shopping centers 10am to 9 or 10 pm
Supermarkets 9am to 11pm
Private company offices 8am or 9am until 5pm or 6pm.
Fresh food markets 3am to 11am or 5am to 7pm
This spreading of employment and business hours has gone a long way to spreading the peak out but can only do so much. Therefore today in Bangkok the morning peak operates 5am to 10am and the afternoon peak from 3pm to 8pm.
Yet despite this spread capacity has been almost reached again during the entire new peak hours. I.e having to stand up on a train or bus has become the norm for most peak commuters. Its not uncommon to stand for 90 minutes on a bus or stand up end to end on a BTS or MRT train.
Only more infrastructure and rolling stock can truly fix the issue in the longer term. But spreading the peak after 9am would help Melbourne greatly provided there are bus and train services to match an increased demand in the 8.30am to 10am window.
Also spreading the evening peak could do wonders for Melbourne by moving most of the retail demand from evening peak to the evening service window. E.g 8pm to 10pm it might actually help grow the economy and remove that “dead zone effect” in suburban Melbourne at 6pm/7pm on almost every day of the week.
Thanks Ricc. Good point re the difference between jobs and careers. We are working against an entrenched mindset of car-dependence, and the scenario of living in Glen Waverley, school in Camberwell and work alternately in Dandenong and the city is representative of a majority of people. To bring people’s mindsets back towards local facilities will take a huge boost to the attractiveness of those facilities.
One major barrier to this is the American mindset which says that businesses have to be big. Each business can have only one head office, and each career path in a big business will eventually involve relocation to head office. Now in the USA this works fairly well because their country towns are a lot larger than ours and it’s possible to run a head office in a country town. Here we just don’t have the population to do that so all head offices (almost) are in city centres. So a push to small businesses will be a push to CADs.
Also, in reply to your second post, I think Metro have the right idea when they market train travel as a more relaxing way to travel. Comfort, privacy, convenience etc are good, but you can’t read a book or use your laptop while driving. I think private transport still has the edge but it’s not as bad as you say.
Thanks everyone
Notch, you’re probably right, there are probably several of this shifts at work. The preference for reliability and frequency over comfort and express running too.
I don’t exactly know when the Japanese started their pushing. The Yamanote line was finished till the 1920s (although the Hachiko legend suggests they were running commuter trains into Shinjuku well before that!) Most countries had crush conditions even just for special events from as soon as railways were invented. The Paris to Versailles train that caught fire and killed hundreds of people in the 1840s, was a special event train. I have no reason to imagine Japan also didn’t have crush loads from the start, and therefore the loss of personal space. No railway company will leave people on the platform, when there’s space on the train and money to be made.
Thaitransit, the idea of staggering work and school times is excellent. Maybe you could do a discussion post on the topic of staggered school times, and save me the trouble!
Meej – good to see you’re also thinking of the deeper issues of work and travel. Keep in mind in the US, if you do graduate from regional office (eg the Mid-West regional office in Oklahoma) you’ll be heading for a head office several states away. Unlike Australia where you might be in Glen Waverley then in Melbourne CBD. My main point is how it affects housing decisions -and the consequence of these decisions is more driving and more desire to be closer to the centre of Melbourne.
I heard on the radio that someone was commuting from Greensborough to Altona via the Ring Road, 90 minutes in peak hour. Not that I really care – but it reflects how hard it is to get people to move to outer Melbourne or a region, and commit them to stay their for decades. It is that sort of long term certainty that will allow long term, robust PT networks to be built around decentralised centres.
Rent vs. Buy and Digital Lifestyle Design is a US look at housing and people changing job every 3 years, vs the 5-7 years you need to make a profit on a house. So you don’t need to keep people in Glen Waverley forever, but for at least two promotions/job changes for them to be secure in buying a house.
The article makes several other points, including about transport, so you should read the whole thing and comments. Also, s/Glen Waverley/Dandenong/ in my previous comment.
Good points to all reading over the piece, and the commentary.
One thing I find that goes along with culture, or what I call ‘railway etiquette’ is that in that there’s little of it to begin with. The worst thing I can see, and a trend that is increasing is the fact that everyone is particularly selfish. The amount of personal luggage that strays onto seats, and the fact that one person cannot move down the carriage 2 metres, to provide relief to the dozen passengers clogged behind him, and even more-so those attempting to board.
I’ve spent some time researching individual train loadings, and what Metro has introduced in regards to telling passengers to spread out is an effective short-term solution. Other passenger directed improvements like the trial layout for the ex-Connex Comeng train is an excellent program, and should be deployed network wide.
Are there any documents or studies to show seating arrangements, shown in conjunction with frequency and distance?
Melburnians to yearn for seats, but during peak hour, they are more than happy to stand. The most common issue is people not moving down the aisles.
Current Mk 2 X’Traps provide an environment which helps reduce crowding around the doorways, but still do not provide enough vertical poles or handstraps. Vertical poles are much more useful than straps.
Fold up seats lockable during peak hour on one side only should provide enough space, whilst retaining the 1×1 seating on the other.
As people catch longer distance services, more people alight, creating more room for customers wanting seats. 9 time out of 10, most people do just want to get home.